Curse

Rayea · Jul 01, 2005, 10:48 AM // 10:48

hm, in answer to the 'can we have RP districts?'
yeah. everyone here decides to always port to say, the last district in thier area group.its usually the quietest,i have noticed.

to 'everyone insults online' hell no! i become more goody goody whenever i get online, unless in im Executioner mode, in which case, you just better not mess with my List, or make sure you have a special on-death incineration plan for your corpse so i cant raise your ass and flog it to a necro-loving son-of-a Vogon ^^

so....perhaps we just ignore insults? hm...depends, dosent it, on who we are and what we are.

Caco-Cola · Jul 01, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Hmm...I think I'm more hostile online than IRL.

Not because I can 'get away with it' or anything, just because people online piss me off more than people IRL do.

And I have no idea if that's still the topic of this thread, skipped the other 279 replies.

Edit: Read some more of the thread.

Guys I'm fairly certain I know HellRaiser from another community (same 12 year old mentality, shitty spelling, 'tough' attitude, way of 'talking', everything) and he's just a jackass where ever he goes. Pay him no mind.

We banned him from that community and I'll bet he eventually gets banned from this one.

Maagus · Jul 01, 2005, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Hellraiser, you are one of the people who blame the owner of the house for leaving it unlocked instead of blaming the thief for robbery, aren´t you ?
Even if there is the biggest opportunity to cheat on someone, scam etc., it doesn´t excuse the scammer. He is always guilty no matter what.

Caco-Cola · Jul 01, 2005, 11:34 AM // 11:34

"Sorry officer but he LET me kill him. He didn't say 'please don't pull the trigger!' so obviously he wanted to die."

Right...

Gardavil · Jul 01, 2005, 11:49 AM // 11:49

for the record, when I interact with anyone in any MMO or Virtual Reality on the internet, how you behave ingame says alot about your "personal character traits" of your own real life personality. I have been a player of MMO's a few years now, and YES, there is a direct link between the morals/ethics/character/personality of a toon with the morals/ethics/character/personality of the controlling Player. Only in true Role Playing games is this not the case. Guild Wars IS NOT a true Role Playing game in my humble opinion (sorry, I just don't see the evidence of it within the majority of the player population).

Do you react/respond in a "good" manner ingame? or a "bad" one?

If "good", then I will interact with you, accept your team invites, help you with missions, etc.

If "bad", then I will consider you a Pirate ingame, and in Real Life........I will have nothing to do with you, for as far as I am concerned, you are not trustworthy. period.

"Teaching somebody a lesson" by scamming a player out of a good sword, or insulting some players (or some players character's) Mother are acts I classify as "Bad".

In MMO's such as this, I play characters that desire to combat and defeat Evil (ummm, same as "bad"). You all can figure out whom I will trust....

Nuff said

Aniewiel · Jul 01, 2005, 12:18 PM // 12:18

A note on "netiquette":

-For our younger viewers who shall remain nameless: http://disney.go.com/cybersafety/

Ten Rules for being a Good Netizen

The following rules were proposed by writer Virginia Shea in a book called Netiquette, and they pretty much cover the important things you need to remember to be a good citizen of cyberspace.

1. Remember the human
2. Adhere to the same standards of behaviour on-line that you follow in real life.
3. Know where you are in cyberspace.
4. Respect other people's time and bandwidth.
5. Make yourself look good on-line.
6. Share expert knowledge.
7. Help keep flames under control.
8. Respect other people's privacy.
9. Don't abuse your power.
10. Be forgiving of other people's mistakes.

-taken from http://www.sofweb.vic.edu.au/internet/netiquet.htm

I'd venture that the above referenced rules sum up quite nicely what all of us have been trying to say to HR. The site I noted also has further explanations of each "commandment" so have a good read---just ignore the horrible pink background.

Mak · Jul 01, 2005, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellRaiser

I do respect people online but when i want to call some one a noob or make fun of their moms i have their right. As you have the right to complement i have the right to insult. This is not done in real life because in real life we have laws and people now a days will either fight you or kill you in real life if you go to far with insults.

In a online game you are behind a computer. Plus if i call you a noob in which you are role playing your character in a mmorpg iam not really calling you a Noob in real life.

Honestly grow up. =)

You also have the right to eat Sh*t; feel free to exercise your rights.

Caco-Cola · Jul 01, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

I do respect people online but when i want to call some one a noob or make fun of their moms i have their right. As you have the right to complement i have the right to insult. This is not done in real life because in real life we have laws and people now a days will either fight you or kill you in real life if you go to far with insults.

In short:

I'm behind a computer and will act like tough shit cause I'm too big of a coward to do it in RL.

Vengeance · Jul 01, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

OK gang ... here's a metaphor which might help explain this to some of our more stubborn readers.

I'm on a little league team. We're pretty good, and we tend to win a lot of games. Now, when our team wins do we gloat about it, or do we respect the individuals who just went out and put forth their best effort and didn't make it? This is one of the fundamentals which we try to teach young children about competition, and it's called SPORTSMANSHIP ...

In football, are you allowed to do an end zone dance anymore? What happened this past season when Randy Moss pretended to moon the opposing fans in the end zone? PENALTIES AND FINES ... Big Time!!!

I'm not about to try and say that I am holier than thou ... I too have ripped on people when I have had a good performance in an online game ... the difference? I ALREADY KNEW THEM ... and once we were finished we went off and had a beer and celebrated our shared experiences ... therefore no hard feelings because afterwards we knew that it WAS friendly ribbing ... and that we DID have each other's respect ...

When you drop insults to a random stranger online, it's almost the same as a being an innocent caught in a drive-by ... it's random, and you're left wondering why on earth you were hit ... Just because you cannot see or face the person on the other end of the CAT-5 doesn't mean that they're not there ... nor does it mean they are any less of a victim ...

Going back to my sportsmanship metaphor ... I think the online community is still going through it's 'growing up' period, where concepts like this are still very foreign ... why? Well, we don't exactly have umpires or coaches roaming around to call foul on people. However when you think about it, perhaps that's the whole point to threads like this ...

Caco-Cola · Jul 01, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Well, we don't exactly have umpires or coaches roaming around to call foul on people. However when you think about it, perhaps that's the whole point to threads like this ...

Mods.

Mods that should ban for excessive stupidity. (outside of off topic, of course

)

asdar · Jul 01, 2005, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I absolutely agree with you Mistress Eyahl but it's almost pointless to tell people that here. The ones that are the most disgusting and rude with no consideration for others aren't doing it for fun.

They're doing it because they crave attention and even when they know that attention will be negative they'll do it anyway because they'll get more bad attention than they'd get good attention if they did the right thing.

I think Hellraiser needs a hug.

Aniewiel · Jul 01, 2005, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

I think Hellraiser needs a hug.

You first.

EvilWizard · Jul 01, 2005, 01:32 PM // 13:32

FACT 1 -- Items in a Video Game have been recognized as having true monetary value.

FACT 2 -- Because these items have now formally been recognized as having a monetary value the time attaining them in game is also considered as having monetary value.

FACT 3- EULA or no EULA if you are defrauded in the US and can prove it through submission of evidence (screenshots, logs from A-Net, etc...) then the person who is found guild of defrauding you can face legal action.

FACT 4 - If the defrauding happened because you broke the EULA you may win in a court case, but your Account will be permanently suspended after the fact by ANet.

It is not as cut and dry simple as it is just a game anymore and there have been court cases where courts of law have forced game developers to give Player Y back Item X. Also as stated very well by Mistress Eyahl here being in a game does not give you the right to do whatever you want because it is a game (Did you know that you could possibly be brought under legal action for what you say in game if it is considered Libel or Defamation of character or if you are in a voice comms environment it could be considered Slander.) Yes it is possible. Basically don't be an ass to people just because you are in a game. It is a poor excuse because what you do in game in my opinion contributes to your overall representation as an individual and it is likely that if you are a complete jerk to people in game then the apple is not far from the tree in the real world.

psycore · Jul 01, 2005, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I'm getting a whiff of hardcore PvE Vs PvP for some reason, not sure why.

One group is an extension of their characters and take world interaction very seriously.
One group are thick skinned highly competitive players where world interaction is about strategy.

Having played both highly competitive team based FPS where trash talking is rampant, and also being in a RP guild where being your character is the norm I can see how these 2 factions colliding would create some tension.

Just 2 cents =P

Algren Cole · Jul 01, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilWizard

FACT 1 -- Items in a Video Game have been recognized as having true monetary value.

FACT 2 -- Because these items have now formally been recognized as having a monetary value the time attaining them in game is also considered as having monetary value.

FACT 3- EULA or no EULA if you are defrauded in the US and can prove it through submission of evidence (screenshots, logs from A-Net, etc...) then the person who is found guild of defrauding you can face legal action.

FACT 4 - If the defrauding happened because you broke the EULA you may win in a court case, but your Account will be permanently suspended after the fact by ANet.

It is not as cut and dry simple as it is just a game anymore and there have been court cases where courts of law have forced game developers to give Player Y back Item X. Also as stated very well by Mistress Eyahl here being in a game does not give you the right to do whatever you want because it is a game (Did you know that you could possibly be brought under legal action for what you say in game if it is considered Libel or Defamation of character or if you are in a voice comms environment it could be considered Slander.) Yes it is possible. Basically don't be an ass to people just because you are in a game. It is a poor excuse because what you do in game in my opinion contributes to your overall representation as an individual and it is likely that if you are a complete jerk to people in game then the apple is not far from the tree in the real world.

this is the most asinine bullshit I have ever read....you either need to retake your bar exam or stop talking as if you knew anything about law.

Caco-Cola · Jul 01, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Too bad we're not in Korea, they actually do that shit. Have an entire section of their police force dedicated to gaming crimes.

Algren Cole · Jul 01, 2005, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Too bad we're not in Korea, they actually do that shit. Have an entire section of their police force dedicated to gaming crimes.

ya...and that's why korea has one of the highest crime rates in the world...they're wasting officers on video game crimes.

EvilWizard · Jul 01, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

this is the most asinine bullshit I have ever read....you either need to retake your bar exam or stop talking as if you knew anything about law.

You call my statements into question, but don't actually poke holes in anything stated. Is one fact wrong or all of them? If so how are they wrong? Here is a tip: Be part of the solution rather than the problem.

Fact 1: Online games now are selling items in game for real money. Sony does it for Everquest.

Fact 2: Time is money. Otherwise court cases would not reward persons for lost time at work; communications companies wouldn't give free service or money back for time wasted waiting on service techs...

Fact 3: EULAs are contractual agreements between the gamer and the game owner/service provider. They do not however supercede common law. An example of this could be seen in HOA agreements. Recently an individual was ordered by HOA to take down a fence that was too high, but the HOA did allow him to have a pool and the state law requires that person to have their fence the height it was. HOA lost. Contracts do not supercede law.

Fact 4: If you were to sell something online for real money and you got defrauded then the investigators would ask ANet for records such as players true name and etc. But on the flip side of that I would bet that your account would be suspended for violating the EULA after the fact.

Other info: Libel, Slander and Defamation of character suits have been happening all over the Internet (especially Libel as it is written word). Just check recent court cases involving Libel in blogs and chat rooms...

So there I have provided further assisting information for you to break apart. If you were just being negative for the sake of being negative I will understand and allow you to gracefully back down. If not provide your argument in a manner that proves your point instead of just making you look like a fool.

HellRaiser · Jul 01, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

You all need to get laid.

Algren Cole · Jul 01, 2005, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilWizard

You call my statements into question, but don't actually poke holes in anything stated. Is one fact wrong or all of them? If so how are they wrong? Here is a tip: Be part of the solution rather than the problem.

Fact 1: Online games now are selling items in game for real money. Sony does it for Everquest.

Sony is a corporation and bound by Corporate Law...you as a single entity are not bound by these laws...you are comparing apples to oranges

Quote:

Fact 2: Time is money. Otherwise court cases would not reward persons for lost time at work; communications companies wouldn't give free service or money back for time wasted waiting on service techs...

You can't associate a meaningful..world wide value to an item that doesn't exist. You are not being provided a service for you time/money so one can only assume that you are being provided a tangible good...we only have two types of Goods that can be purchased in this world..Tangible and Untangible Services...you are being provided neither by purchasing an online item...there is no precedence, in a court of law, for handling a sale of an item/service that never existed.

Quote:

Fact 3: EULAs are contractual agreements between the gamer and the game owner/service provider. They do not however supercede common law. An example of this could be seen in HOA agreements. Recently an individual was ordered by HOA to take down a fence that was too high, but the HOA did allow him to have a pool and the state law requires that person to have their fence the height it was. HOA lost. Contracts do not supercede law.

EULAs are not contractual agreements...they are meaningless dribble posted by superstitious software developers in an attempt to cover their asses should anything go wrong.. They are no more contractually binding than my next two sentences are.

By clicking reply you agree to transfer to me your firstborn daughter, along with the sum of $50,000, at whatever point in the future I request. If your firstborn daughter is over the age of majority at that time, I may, at my option, take a younger daughter, a son, or an automobile, in place of her. You agree that I may, if I feel it necessary, take those items you have agreed to provide me without informing you until afterwards. You agree to hold me harmless and without blame for any incidental property damage or criminal charges that may result from such action on my part.

There, I even bolded it to make sure you read it, unlike those silly little EULAs.

that said...and we are somewhat in agreeance on this fact....

You haven't broken a law by defrauding someone in a video game...you aren't obtaining anything of any real value...just because someone can sell something for real money doesn't mean it's recognized as having real value. As I stated before the product or service you are offering doesn't exist in the real world...it's a faction of imagination based entirely on a storyline in a video game...it DOES NOT EXIST.

Quote:

Fact 4: If you were to sell something online for real money and you got defrauded then the investigators would ask ANet for records such as players true name and etc. But on the flip side of that I would bet that your account would be suspended for violating the EULA after the fact.

the fact that you think anyone would be wasting their time investigating this is enough to show that you have no idea what you are talking about....The United States does not waste time investigating video game crimes...